Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion

This movie is still such a letdown but it deserves its own thread, if for no other reason than to remind people that the Skywalker Saga is definitely not over.

I will post some stuff Daisy Ridley revealed to the prolific writer Sariah Wilson on here since we learned a lot about this movie and the choices that were made.

My husband still won't watch it due to all the backlash. It's the one Star Wars film we don't have on disc- I liked it, but just haven't bought it yet.

Wow, he's never watched it at all, not even on Disney+?

I liked it a lot when it came out, even though I didn't like the ending, but the more I hear about it, the more plotholes I recognize and the more inconsistencies there are with prior films. I know this movie was incredibly rushed and technically not even finished when it was released but a lot of problems came from JJ Abrams not caring about working with the Story Group to create a cohesive ending for the final trilogy of trilogies. He just wanted to use his own plans that he had come up with for TFA, regardless of the fact that there was an entire film in between his two movies which meant he couldn't just pick off from TFA.

The other issue was of course Carrie Fisher's passing. Rian Johnson (in those tweets with Sariah Johnson, which I can't wait to be able to post) also admitted that he couldn't even fathom what he would do with Episode IX if he was the one directing and writing it because you couldn't do this movie without Carrie. I pray for the day I can watch Carrie act in this movie in heaven so we can finally get her performance the world missed out on.

Nope, even on D+ he will not! So if Rian were asked to do this film, he would've said no??

I've heard different stories about Rian doing Episode IX.

I've heard he was asked to do it but he declined. One reason was because he wanted to work on Knives Out. Another reason was that it was impossible for him to start working on the next film while he was still working on TLJ (Rian was hard at work on TLJ when JJ was still working on TFA and similarly, Colin Trevorrow, the original director for IX, was working on IX while Rian was working on TLJ). Apparently he told Bob Iger that he could only do IX if it was delayed instead of being released 2 years directly after TLJ, but Iger wasn't willing to push IX back any further, even though IX had so many production issues such as Carrie's death and Colin Trevorrow being fired.

JJ was picked because Iger liked him and JJ was known for being able to deliver films in a short period of time. I heard JJ was also originally picked for TFA because he was the only director willing to work on the film in a short amount of time since Iger demanded that TFA be released in 2015 as he wanted to get his money worth for the $4 billion Lucasfilm buyout ASAP. Otherwise, TFA wasn't originally supposed to be released until 2017 (when TLJ came out) and there were more years planned to keep writing and developing the story for the ST. When Iger kept trying to get TFA released as quickly as possible, against Kathleen Kennedy's recommendations, that meant it was harder to find a director who could do a Star Wars movie in such a short period of time. I think Brad Bird said no for that reason since he was Kathleen's original choice.

So when my husband's saying his "Kathleen ruined SW" spiel, I should tell him to blame Iger?! My mind is blown. OMG, I know on the other site you posted stuff about unused concepts, like for Ben...OMG someone needs to write a book about all the unplanned goodness, all the ideas being thrown about for these films. That's so, so crazy that only Iger and JJ were willing to push up the films.

Most of what I've heard from credible facts and info, and not YouTube, is that Bob Iger is the one to blame since he micromanages a lot. He rushed the ST into production and demanded TFA be released in 2015 instead of 2017. The failure that was Solo was because Iger didn't want Solo to overshadow Mary Poppins Returns during the holiday season so he pushed Solo as a summer release. Kathleen Kennedy was completely against this but he refused to budge. Now he's admitted that was a mistake especially since MPR ended up underperforming so Iger essentially lost both movies. And TROS was a movie Kathleen tried to delay the release of since they needed more time desperately but Iger refused to disappoint the shareholders (since movies are made by committees these days, especially Disney blockbuster ones) and wouldn't delay TROS another year. Which is why TROS is so rushed at the end. A lot of people are realizing now that any issues the Star Wars franchise has had primarily stem from Iger, not Kathleen, since Iger would always just overturn her. With Iger gone now, I think we're going to get Kathleen's undiluted vision.

There was a lot of deleted stuff with Ben since JJ was never really interested in him as a character except to serve Rey's story. Rian was the one who saw Rey and Ben as dual protagonists which Kathleen also believed. I've also heard online that Kathleen and JJ had friction between the two on TFA so she wasn't super pleased with bringing him back for TROS but she did end up asking him to come back at Iger's behest when Rian wouldn't do the next movie and Colin Trevorrow was fired.

One thing I can say here before I post the actual tweet next week is that Daisy confirmed that under JJ's plans, Ben was never going to live at the end of TROS. Because JJ's movies tend to emulate the Original Trilogy's structure, that meant the "Vader" of this trilogy always had to die, even though JJ failed to recognize that Ben is not synonymous with Vader from the OT. We know before JJ came back, Pablo Hidalgo (a big part of Lucasfilm) pitched an ending where Ben is alive and exiles himself to Ahch-To. In Sariah Wilson's tweets with Rian, he refused to confirm 100% whether he would let Ben live or not since he said he never planned on doing IX so he never let himself think about ending the trilogy, but everything he said around that pretty much confirms that he wouldn't kill off Ben, even if he wouldn't outright state that.

My eyes are wide as I'm reading this tea you're spilling. So Iger is Kathleen's boss, so her hands were tied as far as bringing JJ back. Does she regret firing Colin?! So in a perfect world, it sounds like Rian would've been the person to make TRoS, huh? But he wouldn't without Carrie...but he wouldn't leave the Skywalker Saga hanging, right!? Poor Ben. <3

Yes, Iger is Kathleen's boss and while he could have let her manage LFL and not micromanage, he did that on multiple occasions and so far it hasn't worked out well for him. I don't think Kathleen regrets firing Colin because she did announce publicly that basically he wasn't on the same page as them. I don't know if you remember that alternate script for IX I posted about in DVDizzy (titled Duel of the Fates) but while there were some good things in it, the majority of the treatment was a far cry from where LFL planned the characters to go. Rey was brutally blinded, Kylo was treated like a Frankenstein irredeemable monster, Poe and Rey were a canon couple, Luke was only around to constantly complain about how Rey wasn't a good Jedi for breaking tradition (even though he wanted her to break from the Jedi dogma in TLJ), Leia was basically just window dressing (this script was written before Carrie passed away), etc. I know Kathleen is a big fan of Ben Solo and most of his character's success comes from her (and it also doesn't surprise me then that he's the most popular character of the ST and a huge moneymaker for Disney), so I can definitely see why she said that Colin ultimately wasn't on the same page with LFL.

I definitely would have loved to have seen Rian's IX/TROS. One consolation is that he confirmed in those tweets with Sariah Wilson that he is in fact still working on his Star Wars trilogy, however Knives Out 2 is coming out first (and just a quick off-topic tidbit related to that. Rian is well aware that everyone wants him to cast Adam Driver and/or Kelly Marie Tran in Knives Out 2. And while he didn't make any promises as to whether he would be using either of them, he gushed on about Kelly and said he would absolutely love to work with Adam again).

Did I read the whole thing, or maybe like the Aida playlists, I left it somewhere to read again...oops. Remember when we were younger and had all the time in the world for Disney stuff? :p

His SW trilogy won't be the Skywalkers, but I'm definitely excited for more SW. Poe + Rey, whhaaa? :p

Lol, I know the feeling. If you need the link again I think I can find it, although I know DVDizzy is back up so you might remember it there. The script itself is long but I generally did summarize it on DVDizzy if that's easier and quicker for you to read.

I would love to see Rian work with the Skywalkers again but for now anyway, his trilogy will be based on new characters. Colin Trevorrow was a big fan of Damerey (Poe Dameron and Rey) which is why he asked Rian to include the scene of the two meeting at the end of TLJ.

I just copy/pasted those leaks that you posted at the other site into an email for safe keeping- thank you!! You have provided a goldmine of SW info, and I need to keep it all lol.

My latest fanvid pretty much sums up my thoughts on the franchise. The Solos are my corner of the fandom.



As far as non-SkySolo (the Palpwalker doesn't count) continuations of the franchise, it's a really hard sell for me. Rian is the one bit of hope for a story that at least might be worthwhile (a chance for competent character development!), but I care little about non-saga entries. World building to the point of forgetting who the story is really about was the same complaint I had about how fractured Legends was. Disney is already deep-diving into trying to make Star Wars about everyone but the family. They even killed them off to do it.

I say this as someone who was actually thrilled with the concept of Ben being the only heir to the legacy, because it made the stakes of his salvation so much greater.

Disney is making such a massive mistake if they don't give Ben the Search for Spock treatment via the World Between Worlds and go the atonement route, because it's pretty much an insult to the family the whole story was about to have them all dead for nothing and to have nobody (not even Rey) get anything for their trials or anything they really wanted.

Way before the Sequels, I was a bitter Han/Leia 'shipper surrounded by a fandom that didn't care about them at all. This was back when the Luke fanboys pretty much treated any Solos as useless spares because they had their *real* Skywalker heirs (as soon as they got Mara Jade, Han/Leia's on-screen romance was instantly demoted in importance), which is why they screamed and cried about Luke not having offspring. They've never treated Leia as an equal Skywalker and Han (despite Harrison's fame making the character far more than ever intended) just got relegated to chauffeur and sperm donor (instantly lesser because of not having the Force). This definitely pushed me further into my little Solo corner. Watching it happen again to Ben (the only son!) being demoted in favor of Rey as the more 'worthy' heir was the most infuriating part of TRoS and another part of why the death is so bitter. It definitely comes across in that fanvid!

Love seeing a Han and Ben video showcasing their parallels. Great job and thanks for sharing!

I'm not really interested in much of the non-Skywalker/Solo content either besides the Cassian Andor show since I loved Rogue One. Rogue Squadron sounds the most promising because of the era it's set and because Patty Jenkins is directing. Not a fan of the animated shows so all the Clone Wars inspired spin-offs don't interest me in the slightest, especially since I don't really care that much for Mando.

I'm counting on the World Between Worlds to bring back Ben as well. I don't know how much faith I have in LFL though to do that but I think there are still some loyalists left there who prefer the works of Rian Johnson. And Pablo Hidalgo at least pitched the ending of Episode IX with Ben alive on Ahch-To, so hopefully more people feel as he does and want to bring Ben back as they think he should have stayed alive.

As a Leia fan, it was also difficult to find EU content that focused on her and her family specifically. It always felt like Leia and her kids were window dressing to Luke and Mara, which is why I never was a Luke/Mara shipper (especially since I've noticed the hypocrisy of most Luke/Mara shippers who hate on Reylo just because of the gender reversals). Half the reason they also hate the ST is because they can't stand the fact that Leia was for the first time treated like an actual Skywalker or alternative to Luke, someone who could have fulfilled his role if Luke had fallen like he does in the ST. It's just a huge regret that Carrie passed away before she could get her own movie to wrap up the saga. It's also interesting how Han was the most popular character from the OT, which meant that all the Luke stans had to hate on him. Luke was their power fantasy figure, who they felt they were like and what they deserved to be, whereas Han was who they wanted to be but knew they could never be like. That same attitude is why they attack Ben now, even though he's proven to be far more popular with audiences than Rey.